Does the Bible Give It’s Okay to Killing Babies?

Atheists and Bible skeptics will often attack the moral stance of the God’s Word by quoting Psalm 137:9

“How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones against the rock,”

If you look at the written scripture in context you will see that the Bible does not say it is okay the kill babies. The Psalmist was speaking of the Babylonian captivity, and how the captors were treating God’s people. Revenge was very common in those days and the Psalmist wished the same to the captors as he may have witnessed those offences done to them. He wanted their complete annihilation.

There is no scripture that reads that God condoned such actions. It was merely recorded in the Old Testament.

The atheist or skeptic in any case must first have a standard against which to measure good and bad, to say this is unacceptable; and without a standard, no complaints can be legitimately offered. This is a sincere question that if not answered by the skeptic, makes the critics’ accusation problematic.

48 thoughts on “Does the Bible Give It’s Okay to Killing Babies?

  1. TFTD, “Hey man, you don’t know that, you assess yourself, see if you are aligned with what you believe from a book, build a theology around it, make sure you have the “fruit of the spirit” you count that as evidence, and then you assume you are elect, and that gives you good and safe feelings when you doubt you come back to it and fight the doubt back, eventually you train your mind to believe only this and so it gives you peace at the cost of cutting out everyone who disagrees.” Wow, talk about a run-on sentence! You have a great arrogance about yourself going on about me! You have no idea what my experience has been! I have not appealed to my conversion experience in your diatribe nor will I start as it wouldn’t make a lick of sense to you anyway. You say what you were in the past, bravo! According to scripture you never were a Christian. Sorry but I am not opining here, it IS scripture. God Bless you, and in the future whomever you direct your malice and pretending you know that person, re-think it!

  2. Hey man, you don’t know that, you assess yourself, see if you are aligned with what you believe from a book, build a theology around it, make sure you have the “fruit of the spirit” you count that as evidence, and then you assume you are elect, and that gives you good and safe feelings when you doubt you come back to it and fight the doubt back, eventually you train your mind to believe only this and so it gives you peace at the cost of cutting out everyone who disagrees. If you continue with your logic that what is fair to mankind and fair to God are different, then you would have to say that it would be perfectly fair for God to lead you on and then at the end of your life reveal that you are not elected, that would be perfectly fair and just because you consider your theology first and then logic and not the other way around. You throw away whatever challenges it and hold on to the paradox. I appreciate you trying to explain, but I KNEW I was too, I believed, I walked with God everyday, my heart was filled with love, I confessed my sins, I prayed for the lost, but then to explain this away people say “oh no, see you must not have trusted god through faith, but you focused on works and pursued god in your own strength.” No I knew not to do that, and I trusted. I was an evangelist and a missionary. My reasoning for not believing in the theology of the Bible makes logical sense, because I’m not trying to conform the world to my belief system. I know that I have nothing to lose, but you fear that you have a lot to lose. I think the only fear people should have is that they never fully lived in this world, they were always dreaming about the next and never living in the moment. Eventually time catches up with them and it’s over, regardless of what happens after. What do you remember before you were born? Did you care that you werent? Will you care if you die and there is nothing? But you don’t believe that because it would make you shift everything that you have come to believe that is contained in an ancient book. If you considered that possibility it would make you depressed, because you can’t possibly imagine not existing, or imagine that all the believing you have put so much energy and time into cannot be true. Do you realuze that you are equating me fighting god with me arguing against you? I was just like that. I thought i knew, but i didnt. Would you have said that to jesus when he went up against the scribes and pharisees? We feel too important to not continue on, that’s what scares us, we are self aware and therefore aware that we will die, and we tell ourselves these stories to soothe ourselves, but I’m OK with that, I DO want to be soothed, I’m open to it, but not by a threatening confusing god. Living in this world has to be a gift to us IF it is part of a divine will. Not some scary place to be abhorred.

  3. “Would you feel the same way if God told you right now that you weren’t elect?” You see I KNOW I am elect. What is fair to God and Fair to mankind is two totally different things. Do you realize that God has ordained that some are mean’t for hell and cannot be saved? Read Mark 4: 10-12 10 As soon as He was alone, His followers, along with the twelve, began asking Him about the parables. 11 And He was saying to them, “To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but those who are outside get everything in parables, 12 so that while seeing, they may see and not perceive, and while hearing, they may hear and not understand, otherwise they might return and be forgiven.” That is election, and what you or I think has nothing to do with what God’s plan is. I can see what you you are fearing, because you wouldn’t be fighting God this much! God Bless you.

  4. I’m not afraid I’m referring to fear tactics when it comes to keeping the group think in full swing. If you disobey you will go to hell, lose fellowship, be handed over to Satan for the destruction of your flesh, Paul asking if he should come in gentleness and meekness or with a whip. Paul saying he would be ready to punish every act of disobedience. Manipulating people out of money, fear tactics. Hebrews goes right against your neo-calvanistic view, I say that not to be annoying but to sum it up without having to type it all out. In the calvanistic view it is basically this scenario, you’re my child, I tell you not to do something, you can’t help disobeying because I made you that way, but then I am still holding it against you because you are not part of the elect. I’m punishing you for the way I made you. Is that God’s fault or mine? But then I ask that question and calvanists think it’s really spiritual to answer yes to that because God is sovereign, but they don’t think for a second that they may not be elect, or the dog or pig in oroverbs, so in reality calvinism is for those with a little more self esteem. Would you feel the same way if God told you right now that you weren’t elect? Again dont try to be spiritual and quote something about sovereignty. Do you think it would be fair to you, for god to send you to an everlasting hell because you werent chosen? Regardless of how saved you think you are. Level with me here, I know you wont, but that’s okay, because I know it’s not God sustaining your beliefs it’s your own self assurance, and if you allow a shadow of doubt things will unravel, do you see you maintain your belief with your mind that’s why you are not open to alternative views. Now what happens to the strict fundamental Christian who god allows to lose his mind at the end of life and is screaming and cussing at you, or hitting his wife because he thinks he’s being attacked, or the fundamental Christian elderly woman who is reduced to defecating in her bed and thinks you’re abusing her because you have to clean her up, and is screaming out in fear. Where is God then for all the believing they did, for all the people they cut out of their lives that didn’t share their beliefs, for all the missed friendships, for all the opportunities to live instead of fear? Fear of punishment creates fear as 1 John says. I believed just as deeply as you. If you don’t believe me then I doubt you really trust anything anyone says to you.

  5. I don’t say I am Armenian or Calvinist, I follow the Word of God whether it appeals to anyone including myself I take it as Truth! I don’t see the paradoxes. ” You just said that God grants us belief and that I can willfully disobey and go to hell in the same argument.” It is scripture, (not what I said) that I quoted, tough as it is to take! You simply do not understand the doctrine of predestination. In the Reformed (Calvinist) camp, predestination includes individuals. In other word the Reformed doctrine of predestination is that God predestines whom He wants to be saved and that without this predestination, none would be saved. The non-Reformed camp states that God predestines people to salvation, but that these people freely choose to follow God on their own. In other words, in the non-Reformed perspective, God is reacting to the will of individuals and predestining them only because they choose God, where by contrast the Reformed position states that people choose God only because He has first predestined them. You will go to hell if you continue to live in sin without repentance…Do you have sins of which you need to repent? Are there some old habits, some new sins, some people you’re not reconciled with, or something else that is contrary to God’s word that you have not turned from? If so, then confess it to God and repent. Don’t try and please God through your efforts to make up for a sin against Him. Please God by completely and totally relying on Jesus — and turning from your sins. You need to know that God is there to forgive you and to love you. He is good and kind and patient with you. “Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?” (Rom. 2:4, NASB).

    Repentance is a holy command of God. It is something He can give to you (2 Tim. 2:5) through the grace of His Son Jesus. Seek God’s holiness and turn from that which is unholy. Study the book of Romans and it will be quite an eye opener, no ear tickling there! “you know already in romans that it says god prepared people in advance to be objects of wrath prepared for destruction. What kind of father is that?” I don’t know, however the God I believe in is just and loving. Fear tactics…mind control…you need to repent, you sound like your are in the cult of the anti-Christ and secularism with statements like that! “They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us,” (1 John 2:19). We are not puppets in my world view…Wayne Grudem, in his Systematic Theology, also has some excellent points to add regarding this I believe will help get a better understanding of this issue. The points he makes are basically as follows: In the Arminian view, how can we know if God will ultimately triumph over evil? The Arminian assertion that evil is not according to the will of God creates a bit of a problem. If the evil now in the world got here even though God did not want it, how can we be sure He will ultimately triumph over it in the end? The Scripture says He will but if He was not powerful enough to keep it out of the universe in the first place, since it came against his will (according to the Arminian), and if He cannot predict the outcome of future events that involve free human choices and angelic/demonic beings then what makes us so sure that his declaration that He will triumph is actually true? The Calvinist position is preferable, not only because it is biblical but also because there is great freedom from anxiety about the future, since God “works all things for good to those who love Him.” The Arminian position appears to leave us in a state of anxiety. While all positions are hard to understand, the Reformed view of evil as ordained by God and under His sovereign control, while God not being the author of it, is a plain reading of the Scriptures in its portrayal of our God. The Arminian view of evil as not ordained or willed by God also means it is not under His control. Nowhere in the Scriptures is God portrayed in such a way. You said “fear tactics” earlier in your comment…what are you fearing?

  6. So you’re an Armenian with a little calvinism mixed in? What about the predestination and election verses the calvinists are so fond of quoting. So do you see how that paradox only exists in the bible? Nowhere else in life! You are forced to embrace the paradoxes because they don’t make sense otherwise. You just said that God grants us belief and that I can willfully disobey and go to hell in the same argument. Underneath that all there is ultimately no choice in the presentation do you see that? At what point will my willingness allow god to grant that belief? And at what point will my unwillingness send me to hell? You know already in romans that it says god prepared people in advance to be objects of wrath prepared for destruction. What kind of father is that? And how do you know that you wont end up that way down the line? 1 coronthians if you think you stand firm take heed lest you fall. The fear tactics are roght there, classic mind control cult tactics. If I could what you call “fall away” anyone could. We are all just puppets on a string in your world view then?

  7. First of all God grants us belief. Not everyone is granted that such as yourself. John 1 12-13 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, WHO WERE BORN NOT OF BLOOD, NOR OF THE WILL OF THE FLESH, NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, BUT OF GOD.” Proverbs 21: 1 The king’s heart is like channels of water in the hand of the Lord; He turns it wherever He wishes.” You missed another option, and that you can willfully disobey God and go to hell.

  8. If he came to make all things new, how come the change comes down to our supposed choice to believe in the sacrifice or not, and the death and supposed resurrection of Jesus only has as much saving power as a person’s belief when Adam and eve’s sin effected the entire world regardless of belief? We are supposedly born with the curse, and yet we must be born again according to Jesus, and only a few will find the narrow path. Only a few main directions you can go. Either god doesn’t exist, saves everyone, or hates the majority and only loves the ones that live the difficult life of faith without a sense of consistent evidence

  9. God has allowed free will. God has decreed what is to happen as He knows how wicked the heart is. Would you want a God that was a great puppet master without allowing us mortals free will? Because of Adam we live in a fallen world. Kids cancer, as well as other horrible maladies, are a direct result of a fallen world. I find it strange that unbelievers always bring up God’s judgment and not the pleasures of this fallen world.

    ” We are so arrogant to think that God takes care of every aspect of our lives, and tells us what to say and do because we are a believer.” Where do you get this from? A misrepresentation at best. You say you are “not backslidden”? Then you were never a Christian then. Distortions always come from man, including “mindfulness”! God Bless, I hope the best for you

  10. Yes, if you consider creating god in my own image as not commanding people to kill their own kin, and rape and pillage neighboring tribes. Then yes. Or a god that doesn’t kill little kids with cancer, or allow rape and murder then yes. Yet, we are so arrogant to think that God takes care of every aspect of our lives, and tells us what to say and do, because we are a believer. Mindfulness has to do with accepting the way things are and then from that place of rest making changes. It has nothing to do with making empty promises….”my works and greater shall you do because I go to the father…” etc. Learning to live in the present moment is found underneath every religion, because it comes from us. I don’t have to keep making excuses for a god. I don’t have to try to create and abstract argument for the suffering in the world. When you are subjected to real suffering you know you don’t have time to argue about theology. Where do you get that this is the most important thing? I just laid out multiple scriptures that says otherwise. It’s because you are indoctrinated whether you believe it or not you are, and it is typical that a Christian thinks that it is most important to argue over scripture. For sure you are here on earth right now, and for all you know you have just one life to live and you hope there is an afterlife where you will be rewarded for your sacrificial living. Just because the consecration is great does not mean it’s true. Just ask every other religion you don’t believe in. The reason why it matters to me is really that we all want to be understood. Man, I’m not trying to trick you here, but seriously I’m happy I don’t have to distort my natural sense of justice to fix god twisted laws. I feel that religion has perverted natural love.

  11. When I said man-centered I can see it in your rationale. You want a god to be created in your image~ Mindfulness etc. Why do I fight for the existence of Hell? Wow. I can see hell as punishment for the direct disobedience of Gods Law. He is just. That is you to ponders on. I also don’t see your fight against God is over. Buddy “splitting hairs” over theology is the most important thing a being can do. Your fight against God is firing on all chambers. Guess who will win? All knees will bow, and we will ALL be accountable.
    God Bless

  12. It’s the only way to be, even 1 John says if you love God and hate your brother how can the love of God be in you? Whoever doesn’t love their brother whom they have seen cannot love God whom they have not seen. Whoever lives in love, lives in God and God in him. Is this too simple for you? Your god said it right? If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need and doesn’t take pity on him how can the love of God be in him? So are these scriptures that indicate the love of God being in you or not, just man-centered? There is a depth to spirituality and being “god centered” that goes way beyond exegesis of scripture and that’s why I cherry pick with you because what matters is underneath all the words. Even the apostles and jesus did this with the old testament. Paul even quotes some poets and stuff. Why do you fight so hard for hell to exist as eternal punishment? Do you think when i die jesus would say “sorry son, go to hell, you thought i was too loving? We hope for punishment and our sense of justice that’s why we want there to be a hell. It makes us feel like we’re doing something productive. So we don’t have to deal with the issues right in front of us. We feel ” oh god will take care of that.” You should check out the biblical argument for ultimate reconciliation, it may shock you. But i know im the devil for telling you that and so youve already shut down the idea.
    As far as fighting god goes, I wouldn’t say there is fighting going on, I would say the fighting has ceased within me. I think James got it right when he talked about what causes fights and quarrels among you. But Christians don’t think it applies to them when they split hairs over theology. They use the bible to suit their own desires even the hard to swallow ones under the guise of “just sharing what God says”. They are harder on others than themselves and when you finally switch that and critique and split hairs on your self then you’ll see the futility of the weight of religion. You’ll see the self absorption and preoccupation with sin, and the absolute crippling fear of the world, the nihilism behind it all. The disdain for life that it creates. I’ve analyzed and thought very deeply about this stuff.

  13. Well, I can see that you are definitely more man-centered than God-centered. If I were you, I would certainly make sure that you exegete scripture better than you have been with me. I always want to ask the unbeliever, “Why do you fight God so much, if you don’t even believe He exists? Is that a fair question?

  14. Philosophically, If God exists, living on earth with all its dynamics cannot be to simply make it to heaven or not or to obey an overreactive deity. Human beings would have to be a lot more central to the story and a lot more powerful. Even jesus said to the pharisees…”have I not said you are gods”… when challenged for saying he was. Jesus even said “the kingdom of God is within you.” So to me there is an underlying reality found beneath the veneer of religious dogma. Jesus said to the pharisees that they shut the door to the kingdom in men’s faces, that they don’t enter and prevent those from entering that are trying to. He also said the pharisees cross land and sea to find one convert and make them twice the son of hell that they are. That’s what I think of dogma.

  15. No I’m not backslidden, I don’t believe in dogmatic belief systems at all. And I could argue more, but it’s futile, you are convinced and keep in mind I’m just as convinced of my position now, I have found the exact peace that I felt before as a Christian. If that is coming from the holy Spirit then God himself will have to show me.

  16. Not certain as to what is so difficult about Matthew 11? In context:
    “26 Yes, Father, for this way was well-pleasing in Your sight. 27 All things have been handed over to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.

    28 “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

    Maybe elaborate on your issue with this scripture? I don’t see it.

    Luke 9:62 whoever starts…

    Backsliding is a term used to describe the weakening of a Christian’s commitment to Christ that is often manifested in a more worldly attitude and behavior. Holiness groups use the term and often teach that such backsliding can lead to the loss of salvation. The Calvinist will say that you cannot lose your salvation. So backsliding may be where you are right now?

  17. (Matthew 10:34-36) – “Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35″For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household.” Context is the key to Jesus’ words. In Matthew 10:34, Jesus is speaking about the divisions that will come, even among family members, over their belief or lack of belief about Him. In that respect, He has come to bring division. This context is also related in Luke 12:51. No problem here, which one next?

  18. “Then look at jesus contradictory statements. To name a few: take up your cross and follow…come that you may have life and have it more abundant….my yoke is easy and my burden is light…whoever starts to plow and turns back is not worthy of me….I have not come to bring peace but a sword….he will be called prince of peace…etc. etc. The list goes on and on man I’m not lying to you. I loved god with all my heart.” None of these is problematic…could you be more specific?

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